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- wampus@lemmy.caEnglish23 hours
Meh, I admit I shrug more and more when I see these sorts of pieces with these gender nagging titles. It doesn’t feel like you’re comparing apples to apples when we talk about things like gender discrimination / issues, in many cases, and the article doesn’t really address the potential bias in the data.
eg. Ask men if they’ve ever been woken up by a BJ from a partner. You’ll likely find it a very common experience most have likely had, if they’re sexually active. Then ask them if they’ve ever been raped. Remind them that if they had a partner initiate sex while they were sleeping, they couldn’t consent, so it’d be rape. Few will actually register it, and fewer still would bother reporting it. Or take something like workplace inappropriate touching. I’ve known women in every office I’ve worked in over the past ~15 years, who were “huggers”, or who felt it perfectly fine to touch guys biceps etc. Men shrug and don’t report it, but swap the genders and it gets reported to HR pretty quick.
For another easy example of workplace discrimination targeting men/benefiting women – it’s incredibly common for women in an office to have things like women-only chat groups, and women-only networking outside of work. Fit bit groups, yoga/after work exercise, etc. Men aren’t invited/included, nor given that opportunity to network. Any man who’s worked in such an office, and has been excluded/overlooked for those groups, has been the victim of workplace gender discrimination.
Women are often in victim bubbles, that train them continuously to find fault with men’s actions, and to credit it as gender discrimination, and that most of their faults/mistakes are the result of biased systems which everyone else needs to fix. Men are in bubbles that say they’re lucky/doin good if they have any neutral/positive interaction with other people, and that all the man’s faults/mistakes are their own doing, that they need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. And we see articles/studies like this one, feeding into that pattern.
- lenz@lemmy.mlEnglish21 hours
IMO you and your partner should always communicate prior about whether it would be okay to wake each other up with sex, and not doing so is irresponsible.
I don’t think being woken up with a sexual act you couldn’t consent to is a good way to define rape. A good definition is whether the act was wanted or unwanted. There’s a subtle difference here.
If being woken with a BJ was wanted, then it’s not rape. But it could have been rape if it was unwanted. It’s extremely irresponsible to pray and hope that the contact was wanted without establishing anything prior. Basically: it’s possible to consent to something during/after the fact. But it’s dangerous, and why risk being a rapist by doing it that way when you can simply have a conversation about whether it would be okay?
- wampus@lemmy.caEnglish16 hours
Yes, you should communicate before, etc.
The point is more that if men were viewing themselves as “most likely victims” because they’ve been told repeatedly that men get raped a bunch, and that acts such as wakeup BJs count as rape in the eyes of the narrative, then they’d be mass reporting themselves as being raped for an act that, at present, most guys shrug at. It’s the societal ‘norm’ that says “all men should always want sex” that underpins it in a way, in that men almost never consider themselves victims in this regard – that, paired with the norm that men’s bodies are completely disposable. And it’s partially the societal norm that women’s bodies are inherently desired/wanted/to be protected, that makes them view a lot more scenarios as ‘rape’ – and allows them to decide if its rape years after the event even, if they later realise they felt some sort of pressure to go through with it. Much different measurement methods for the same concept, so it seems really disingenuous to compare them directly.
Similarly, women have been told repeatedly that they’re discriminated against at work. If they see a group of guys going out after work to a pub, and they don’t get invited, they’d likely report that as gender discrimination – it’s networking opportunities that they’re being denied. I’ve even heard COO women on Freakonomics before commenting about how the choice of activities/conversation topics, being not the ones that women typically do/talk about, isolates/discriminates against them. Meanwhile guys, seeing a group of girls going to the girl only gym, are not meant to see that as gender discrimination / not ‘trained’ to view it as gender discrimination. When a group of women is discussing women-centric topics, men aren’t trained to see that as isolating. So when you later ask both groups if they’ve been discriminated against, “Surrpise!” the women will claim it more regularly, while the guys will be oblivious / nonchalant about it.
- ZILtoid1991@lemmy.worldEnglish1 day
Autistic here: I’m not even being let to work in my field, because people think autism = intellectual disability, and therefore I only play games on the PC, and all my achievements are due to some Forrest Gump style meddling from my mother.
- Allero@lemmy.todayEnglish1 day
all my achievements are due to meddling from my mother
Could be an impostor syndrome?
Still, that sucks and shouldn’t be the case. Plenty of autistic people I know completely rock at their stuff, and overall do not perform worse.
- ZILtoid1991@lemmy.worldEnglish56 minutes
No, it’s just an ableist myth in my country, perpetrated by far-right bloggers of the 2000’s, with long-lasting effects.
2 daysThat it’s less than half is an achievement at this point. A sad and fucked up achievement, but an improvement nonetheless.
- dogslayeggs@lemmy.worldEnglish2 days
I wonder how tightly focused the term “gender discrimination” is. Not every woman I know in my company has been discriminated against for job opportunities, and not every woman I know in my company has experienced sexual harassment, but if “discrimination” includes harassment then I would guess it is above 50%.
- Peffse@lemmy.worldEnglish2 days
I know my pre-COVID office had a floor of nearly 200 engineers, and only 3 women.
Regardless of policy, bias is going to happen at that scale, usually not in favor of the women. Honestly makes me sad how tough it must be.
- grue@lemmy.worldEnglish2 days
Every woman I’ve worked with (in software engineering) has been excellent at her job, presumably because the ones who aren’t don’t last in the industry at all.
- searabbit@piefed.socialEnglish2 days
When I was younger, every time I’d attend a women leaders in STEM panel, they would inevitably ask them about hurdles and if they ever faced gender discrimination etc. Most often their answer was some version of “no”. And it’s relevant to point out they were most often tomboy/autistic coded af. I still think about how it never occurs to them that they were perfect examples of survivorship bias, and I’d rather hear the stories from the women who weren’t so lucky.
I wonder if remote work has had a positive effect since men are spending less time in the room with women.
- 2 days
You don’t know when it happens. After working for a very, very long time, I’ve realized that hidden relationships are all around you. Those networks absorb opportunities that you could have. The Good Ole Boys club is real shit.
- dogslayeggs@lemmy.worldEnglish20 hours
It absolutely is, and it works against anyone not in the club. I was once told by a GM in my company whom I knew outside of work, “you will apply for this job and get it. Then you will apply for that job’s manager’s job and get it. After that I won’t be able to help you.” Once I got outside his sphere of influence, I no longer had anyone advocating for me and haven’t been able to get any new jobs, lateral or promotion, since. To be fair, I’m not a great employee and have risen to the level of my incompetence; but I’ve seen other people get promotions who were not as good at the job as me because they do more of the company social stuff.
And I know that those networks definitely favor men in my industry. So you’re right, even if there isn’t outright, noticeable discrimination against women; strong bias exists.
- MasterBlaster@lemmy.worldEnglish21 hours
that is gender agnostic. as s man i can tell you I’ve been excluded from most opportunities because i am not socially skilled.
on the flip, I’ve neen told by appartment owners that i can’t live there because he felt the other renters (women, all) eould be uncomfortable with a man as a neighbor.
i did not go to the equal opportunity organization to complain. besides, as a man i’d be laughed at and dismissed anyway.
Women currently dominate the job market and educational institutions both as students and teachers. women get the vast majority of grants and discounts for college.
it’s really men who are being discriminated against because “patriarchy”. i am an ex-feminist, btw.
- Allero@lemmy.todayEnglish1 day
In many women-dominated jobs, the situation is reversed, with men commonly being discriminated against.
However, for all its gender equality gains, tech remains relatively male-dominated and discriminative towards women.
- hperrin@lemmy.caEnglish2 days
Fuck off with that. More than half the women I’ve worked with have experienced discrimination in meetings where I’ve witnessed it. Big tech is a disgusting boys club.
- kkj@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish5 hours
I mean more than average. Your anecdotal experience is higher than the number in the study, so the most likely explanation is that you’ve worked in companies that have a higher incidence than the average company. The study could also be of companies with less sexist behavior than average, but their sample size is almost certainly larger, so that’s less likely. Or maybe their methodology is bad, or maybe you misinterpreted the behavior, or maybe the whole thing is an LLM hallucination and I’m screaming into the void, but the first explanation is the most likely.
- kkj@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish4 hours
Well, since it was a survey and not spy cameras, you’re disagreeing with the victims of the perceived sexism, which seems a little presumptuous. Now, it’s certainly possible for people to not notice sexism or to underestimate it on a survey, but it’s just as possible for you to overestimate it.
- TargaryenTKE@lemmy.worldEnglish2 days
I’m willing to bet that the real number is actually somewhere above 50%, they just didn’t have enough respondents who recognized and reported it to the survey
- Venator@lemmy.nzEnglish22 hours
Or they didn’t believe the survey was anonymous, or they didn’t want their company to look bad or something…
- 2 days
I was thinking the same thing. Laughing it off or ignoring it, isn’t the same as it never happening.
- BigTrout75@lemmy.worldEnglish1 day
I saw it one time and had to laugh. It was a interview and a woman interviewer who asked the interviewee a tech question. The interviewee then said aren’t you from HR?"
- 2 days
Read: Half of women in tech do not realize they’ve faced discrimination.
FTFY
I don’t work in tech but I do spend a lot of time in overwhelmingly-male-dominated spaces and this is absolutely not shocking.
- darthsundhaft@piefed.socialEnglish1 day
There’s no way this ain’t more than half still. I’d even wager all women in tech specifically have had to deal with at least once in their career.
- Tollana1234567@lemmy.todayEnglish1 day
they probably dont want to say anything, or play off minor issues as a nothing, probably dont want to face potential retribuition from men, or future job opportunities, aka “dont rock the boat.”
- multi_flexi@lemmy.worldEnglish1 day
I have experienced the oposite in one of my previous jobs, multi-national company. Hiring just based on sex. In my current job for local company, male colleague who was terrible at his job was sacked within 2 months, female coleage was sacked for the same reason after 2 years. My current boss is a woman (and she is a good boss). We have ratio of 70:30, but past 3 hires were women. So these titles are just clickbait to make people angry because they are simplifying or straight disinforming.
- Allero@lemmy.todayEnglish1 day
One doesn’t exclude the other. Discrimination of women in tech is more widespread and hence more talked about.
But it must be noted that workplace discrimination of men exists as well: in some cases, it’s because many jobs are women-dominated, in the others, it’s because of the bosses pushing their stuff. Latter seems to be your case, and it’s valid and shared by many men.
- Tollana1234567@lemmy.todayEnglish1 day
which industry? tech is heavily Male dominated, although the confrences around me have a ton of female conference go-ers, that maybe a unique situation, since its people from all over the country and other countries descending on this area.
i tried to get into one where is heavily biased in favor of woman, biotech, health. even the buildup while in college was benefiting them way more than men, most of the voluntary labs are dominated by women solely, and have a sole preference, and i heard down grapevine the male lab manager was preferentially only choosing women. even during job hunts, they are pretty much hiring them all the time, since it fits with the 6:4 ratio in bio degrees earners, and up to masters level, but not PHD, at least for younger women than millineals, since i know some women who have bio or try to get bio at this generations couldnt get into it right away.
